We grew a lot of these at one time in the backyard. We started with three aptos blue trees (pines) and had black-eyed susans around them. Daddy likes trees. We now have eight aptos blues and three river birch trees in the backyard. It's not a large backyard. Completely covered in trees and now, lawn. No flowers. Probably won't have flowers again in this town. Daddy and Momma are booking to the Pacific Northwest, hopefully in 2016.